Propane, Butan, Filling and Changing gas bottles

The issue with various types of gas bottles and gas types

Gas is always an issue on a cruising boat. 
 
On mainland EU (i.e. EU except Madeira, Azores, Canaries) you may only change bottle and not fill it. Each country have their own bottles. Some are filled with Butane some with Propane (In northern Europe Propane is predominant, since it burns also at lower temperatures).
 
 
The only EU-wide system is the Camping Gaz system (Butane!) which you can change all over Europe, but as soon as you leave EU they generally mainly fill gas bottles (no exchange).
 
 
Problem with Camping Gaz is that they are intended for Camping (albeit the name) and they rust heavily at sea and thus they don’t last long. In EU it’s OK since you change them every 4-6 weeks. But sometimes they rust so heavily before that so then they refuse to take them back for exchange and you end up with having to buy a new bottle. Especially if you haven’t tightened the deck hatch with a sealant, which is an important precaution.
 
 
I have tried several types of sealant and found the sealant from Yachticon being the best. 
 
Preferably you also have a hatch lock that tightens the hatch the more you turn it like the Lift handle by Roca.
 
 
 

Camping Gaz

 
Note that there are two sizes of blue Camping Gaz, The 904 bottle with1.81 kg and the 907 bottle with 2.72 kg Butan. 
 
 
 
On my boat, I have space for 2 x 6kg Swedish Aluminium bottles (built to be strogh enough for Propane) or 4 x 907 Camping Gaz bottles. I chose to be flexible, so normally, I carry 1 x 6kg Swedish Aluminium bottle plus 2 x 907 (2.72 kg each) on top of each other in a piece of tubing with a diameter just a bit bigger than the bottles. While sailing in Europe, I use the two Camping Gaz bottles and carry the Swedish for emergency and when I am outside Europe (Madeira, Azores…) I use the Swedish bottle and have it filled with whatever gas they offer (see below). 
 
 
 
My gas storage compartment is just deep enough to have two 907 Camping Gaz bottles on top of each other under one condition only: If I use a very flush valve that doesn’t build much on the height. It has the knob on the side rather than on the top and therefore it is very flat! 
 
 
 
 
Unfortunately, this valve is, again, intended for camping and not of the best quality, so I have to replace it at least annually. I also spray the axis for the turning know with penetrating oil (e.g. WD40) regularly so it turns smoothly. But the good thing is that I can carry two 907 Camping Gaz bottles just fit on top of each other.
 
 
 
 

Combining Swedish Propane bottle with Camping Gaz (Butan)

After the valve on the Camping Gaz bottle or the built-in valve on the Swedish Propane bottle comes the regulator which takes down the pressure from the one inside the bottle to more feasible 30 mBar for the stove.
 
Note:  the regulator may be the same for both types of bottles and gas types (Swedish with Propane and Camping Gaz with Butan). I use this regulator, bought from SVB, which is good quality. 
 
 
It’s almost visible by eye if you look at the above two pictures that The regulator fits nicely into the Camping Gaz valve. 
 
Now if you wish to use the Swedish bottle instead (which has a built-in valve) you need an adapter so that the above regulator fits into the Swedish bottle, since they have different threads. 
 
Therefore, I have an adapter from Swedish Bottle to Camping Gaz system, which looks like this: 
 
 
 
 
There are also complete sets of gas-adapters. 
 
Finally, after the regulator comes the soliniod, where I can Switch off the gas from inside the galley. I use the solenoid by Truma, which you can buy from SVB. 
 
 
This all sounds complicated and yes, it is! Due to lack of standards!
 
With my setup I have two possibilities:
1. When it Europe, I have two Camping Gaz Butan bottles connected like this:
907 Camping Gaz bottle Bottle -> Valve -> Regulator -> Truma Solenoid -> rubber hose (changed every 4 years) -> copper pipe to under the stove -> Manual valve -> rubber hose (changed ever 4 years) -> stove (changed every 10 years) 
 
2. When I am outside Europe and they fill the bottles rather than exchanging them I can just move my regulator to the Swedish aluminium bottle:
Swedish gas bottle including valve on top of the actual bottle -> adapter to Camping Gaz thread -> continue like above with Regulator etc. 
 
 

 

 

Butan contra Propane

Your stove can cope with Butan or Propan, so here, you don’t need to worry. 
 
Now to the crucial fine-print: 
Butan is stored at lower pressure than Propan. This means that Propan bottles are stronger than Butan bottles, being able to cope with the higher pressure. 
 
This means you can easily fill Butan into a Propane bottle but you must absolutely not fill Propane into a Butan bottle!!
 
And when you are out sailing outside Europe often they don’t even know what they are filling into your bottle and sometimes it’s a mix between Butan and Propane. Very often you just get the answer “it’s gas!”. So if you are out sailing it’s better to have a bottle designed for Propane, so you don’t have to worry about which gas they are filling. Preferably you have a bottle made out of non-corrosive material such as aluminium or composite. 
 
Composite bottles are great, since they are transparent but unfortunately some of them are too wide to fit into a HR-locker. 
 
Camping Gaz is also available in the Caribbean, but is extremely expensive.  In the Azores they fill your own Camping Gaz bottles, so you get back your own (rusty) one. Camping Gaz is quite known internationally, so most probably they don’t fill Propane into these bottles – hopefully!
 

Which gas cylinders as alternative to the Swedish PA6?

 

There is a big demand from the sailing community regarding replacing aluminium gas bottles (e.g. the Swedish PA6 ) which have been discontinued (at least in Sweden). They need to be tested or replaced every 10 years.
 
I seem to have found a very similar one, if not the same, in Hungary now, with a big “but”… (more about this below). 
 

Camping RV’s contra marine bottles

 
The market for RV’s is blooming for the sole reason that RV’s can “cheat” the system by driving to a gas station selling “LPG-gas” for propulsion (which, I learn, is nothing but a normal mix of Butan and Propane). It is completely allowed to drive to a gas station in Europe and fill up one’s car, just as you would fill it with petrol/gas or diesel. The guy in the gas-station is not aware (or closes his eyes) of the fact that the filling is not for driving  the car but used as cooking gas. Therefore, gas bottle manufacturers are sometimes (such as Gasbank) installing two valves, one for input and one for output. But this, you can have a fixed installation: One tube is leading from the filling input of the RV (looks identical to where gas-cars fill up their cars with LPG) and the other valve is leading to the kitchen of the RV. For boaters, this “Duo” is irrelevant, since we can’t drive to a filling station with our boat but have to cary our bottle to the filling station. 
 
An RV thus has two filling inlets, one for diesel and one for LPG.
 
To illustrate how important that RV market is and that fixed installation in a car is on demand, Gasbank is no longer selling the single valve 5kg slim version, but only the Duo. 
 
 
See an example of filling system in an RV here.
 
 
The marine market is considerably large as well with just as many boats needing gas bottles for cooking. But the EU has one huge “disturbance” when it comes to offering good gas bottles for the marine market: You are no longer allowed to fill a gas bottle yourself, but only exchange it. It is then refilled by a “proper” station. 
 
 
This is generally also true for RVs and comping, but, as I said, they can cheat by driving to a gas station pretending they are filling their car with LPG. I have not really understood why you are allowed to fill your LPG car but not to fill your bottle at the very same gas station, but it might be because of tax: The LPG at the gas station is considerably less expensive than Propane or Butane sold as “cooking gas”. Gas stations are not allowed to sell the very same LPG if filled in a bottle, but only if filled in an RV (same bottle but pretending it’s for driving the car). 
 
Youtube is full of tips how to buy a big gas bottle and then refilling smaller ones and many gas bottles (such as the Gasbank or Alugas) have an overfilling valve meaning you cannot fill to more than 80%. 
 
I had a meeting with the CEO of JSP Europe at boot Düsseldorf, who would love to sell AISI316 bottles to the marine industry but we both reckoned the biggest issue within EU is the filling issue. Outside of the EU there is no problem, and even in Madeira and Azores, there is no problem in having  filled your gas bottle. For all these, a good quality gas bottle is essential since you keep your own bottle after refilling.
 
Any company entering the marine market with refillable bottles would have to build a network of stations along the coast where bottles can be exchanged. I told JSP that it would be enough to have a filling station every 120 or so nm since many of us have two bottles and when one is empty you would exchange it to a new one whenever you arrive in a new port offering an exchange. 
 
We all know that the only company having established such a network of exchange places is CampingGaz and it seems very costly to build up a similar network, but it would be doable (if I were younger for instance…). CampingGaz has the biggest drawbacks of 
– only holding Butan (so you cannot fill Propane and you never know what cocktail you get abroad)
– Being made of rusting steel so you can’t fill it too often until they become unusable
– The CampingGaz filling is extremely expensive in some countries
– The bottles are small (2.3 kg or 2.7 kg)
 
There should be a new market for a good bottle. So what is a good bottle? 
 
For many boaters the size must not big to fit the gas compartment. I have pinpointed a max diameter of some 250mm and a maximum hight of some 490 mm, including valve. So this takes down the possibilities to three types of bottles in the same number of materials.
 

1. Stainless Steel: JSP Europe

 
This would be my favourite bottle. On their website, not reachable from all countries and only in Dutch), it says they offer the JSP2005 in ASI304 and ASI3016. Size is 229mm x 487mm which is perfect. It can hold 5.4kg Propane (and some more Butan). 
 
Unfortunately, they do not make the AISI316 any longer but only in inferior AISI304 “stainless” steel, which is not suitable or boats. To offer it in ASI3016 they need to go through the entire testing and approving process and this would be a major investment, with an uncertain turn-out due to the fact that you do not only have to offer the bottle in question but also filling facilities or exchanging facilities. 
 
If you had one of these bottles in AISI316, where would YOU fill them? 
 
We wold need a short extension on the valve so we could screw on a GOK reduction valve without it interfering with the bottle itself.
 
I am not sure how big the market for marine bottles is, but JSP Europe is reluctant in wanting to invest in the approval of an AISI316 bottle. This is a shame, since this would be my absolute favourite. 
 

2. Aluminium: Alucyl

 
I have been in contact with a company from Hungary called ALUMÍNIUMÁRUGYÁR ZRT. They have made aluminium gas bottles that very much look like the Swedish PA6 for decades. Possibly, this could actually be the same bottle, but I’m not sure. They have a 5.4 kg Propane and Butan bottle with very very similar dimensions as the old Swedish PA6: 256mm x 495mm. Article No 525.246. 
 
This is the same bottle that is sold in New Zealand under the brand name maXtek 5kg. 
 
I have been in contact with them and they are happy to sell, if I buy at least 200 bottles. Haha! They don’t have a distributor for the marine industry and asked if I wanted to become one for them. Should I? If I had nothing else to do, possibly, but having recently become an RYA Yachtmaster Examiner and increasing my theory courses to now also include electronic navigation and radar simulation…. No way…! 
 
They give very little information about thread and valve on the bottle and whether the above mentioned GOK reduction valve would fit etc. But they hold all the approvals. 
 
Aluminium might not be the best material for a gas bottle, but my old Swedish PA6 has worked well, so I see no problem with Aluminium. 
 

3. Composite: Gasbank

 
The third alternative would be the Gasbank Slim fit. 
Gasbank is from Poland.
 
You can purchase them from CarbonZorro in Poland or a distributor in the UK for instance.
 
Size is perfect: 230mm x 495mm, but they only exist as Duo for RV’s. We could also buy a Duo but never use the second valve, of course, so that is not the main problem.
 
The main issue is that Composite bottles is not ideal since they have a tendency to leak with the composite and the metal valve expands differently in temperature. I have heard of leaking bottles around the neck where the valve is installed. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

4. Alugas

 
Alugas makes gas cylinders in Aluminium but with 300mm too wide to fit in the boat. The Travel Mate 11 kg can fill 11.4 kg Propane (hurray!) but with a size of 300mm x 600mm it’s too big. 
 
Alugas is also the manufacturer (so I am told) to the BBQ-Gas bottle. 
 
This is intended for BBQs but is made of Aluminium and would fit in hight, but still has 300mm diameter which would be too much. 
 
 

My choice?

 
I am still hoping for JSP Europe to start producing an AISI stainless steel bottle for us sailors. Maybe you al wish to write a letter to them asking about it? Maybe they then feel that there is a market out there? E-mail: [email protected]
 
The CEO is Jon and he seldom answers e-mails but his secretary is friendly and tries to pass on the messages. I have been trying to buy an AISI304 in the mean time just to test since maybe it’s good enough even though it would not hold for a full 10 years, but Jon has the opinion that he only wants to sell the best, i.e. AISI3016… 
 
As things look now, time is running out for this season (2025)  and possibly I will live with my Swedish PA6 for yet another season… 
 
So, I’m stuck a bit not really understanding which way to go. Only that I do need a new bottle that fits a marine compartment and to my knowledge there are the above 3 feasible options (JSP, but wrong stainless steel material, Alucyl, which only wants me to sell 200 bottles at once and Gasbank that only has the Duo and I am not very fond of Composite due to possible leakage).